Dr. Patrick: Something I practice is time-restricted eating where I like to eat all my food within a like 10-hour window. You know, I don't go too crazy but, you know, like, I like to have a resting period. And, you know, when you're not digesting and all that, you are in a repair process, right, you're in repair mode. The problem that a lot of people make with time-restricted eating is they go, "Oh, in order to eat within this 10-hour window I have to skip breakfast." Right? So, they skip meals, which ends up being caloric restriction, you know, combined with the time-restricted eating.

And so, what I do is not skip meals, I do not skip breakfast, I do not skip meals, unless, you know, there's some circumstantial thing that happens where I have to get somewhere or whatever, right, but if I'm getting all of my protein within that 10-hour window, so, it's a intermittent fasting but not being in a caloric deficit, so, getting the same calories that I would get if I was eating my food throughout the day. And then adding in resistance training, making sure I'm eating the protein. Is that going to be conducive with gaining muscle mass?

Dr. Schoenfeld: Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, we actually are starting to get some good research on this topic. Now time-restrictive feeding, it's interesting you bring that up, I have a review paper currently in review with my colleague Alan Aragon, who's a big nutritional expert, and we covered this exact topic. The interesting thing with time-restrictive feeding, number one, there's various iterations of it. So, there's 4/20, so, we have 4 hours eating and then 20 hours off. There's 6/18, there's 8/16, so, there's all variations. Then there's also the 2/5 concept where you fast for 2 days and then eat 5 days or. So, a lot of that will depend upon the specific type of time-restrictive feeding. You're talking about a 10-hour window, it's much more friendly towards anabolism.

But it's interesting because, conceivably, spacing out your protein would logically have benefits, and there's been some research, even longitudinal research, that backs this up, that you get better utilization of protein if it's spread out, let's say, at least over three meals relatively spaced. Like, breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and perhaps even four. But now, again, so, this is where the nuances come in, if you're a bodybuilder, I would recommend trying to take in protein across the day as much as possible. Because when you're not eating, you're catabolic. Eating is anabolic. So, not eating is catabolic. But the studies on time-restrictive feeding really don't show much difference.

Now, our measures that we have, our current measures of looking at hypertrophy or even MRI, which is the gold standard, still has a margin of error, it's not like you're looking at a cadaver and you're actually, you know, measuring or you're doing like rodent research where you actually can weigh the muscle, etc. So, our measures might not be sensitive enough to detect subtle differences but, for the vast majority of people, when you're not looking to body build, it's just not going to be much of a difference.

If you're going to do a 4/20, I would say you're then going to be in a lot more...and there's been research, one study certainly showed diminished muscle hypertrophy with a 4/20 versus a traditional eating pattern. I could see where a 2/5 might have issues. So, again, I would say, whatever you do, try to structure your training within that eating window that you have. Because, and there's actually been quite a lot of research on this, that the body is highly anabolic for at least 24 hours, if not more, after a workout. But when you start getting outside of, you know, 6-8 hours or so, it's probably going to trail off where you might not harvest some of the gains, depending upon what you're looking for. You know, especially if your goals are more optimizing muscle mass.

So, I would say it's beneficial to try to get the feeding in within that window, whatever it is. If you're going to be, let's say, in a 10-hour window, try to train within the earlier part of that eating so that you're going to be able to eat after your workout and...let's say, not do it right after your final meal and then be catabolic for 14 hours.

Dr. Patrick: Okay. So, with the anabolic window, is there some...

Dr. Schoenfeld: It's really a barn door. Yeah, we've done a ton of research on this. So, certainly there is somewhat of a window. And even in the paper we published, which people take there's no anabolic window, that's not what our research showed but it showed that it's really minor. The much more important thing is getting your total daily protein intake. And that's where, kind of to your point, if you're hitting your daily protein requirements, whatever your window is, if you're doing, let's say, certainly 10 hours but even like a 8/16, which is the most common time-restricted feeding strategy, if you're getting 1.6 grams per kilogram, you're pretty good, you're going to get the majority of your gains regardless.

Then it starts to come down, you kind of mentioned this with Stu Phillips in similar veins, that's kind of, like, the...now you're starting to get more, like, the cherry on the sundae here if you want to eke out the maximum amount of gains. And really it's, like I said, more of a barn door, it's not this narrow window. And I think what we've debunked is that, after 45 minutes, you, "Oh my God, I got to slam my shake immediately after training or I go catabolic," and even if you're an advanced bodybuilder, I don't think there's utility...the utility in that is virtually nil. But I do say, when I'm coaching bodybuilders, you know, "Get your protein in as quickly as you can after a workout." You don't have to stress and slam your shake the minute you finish your last set but...because this is where even small amounts of gains can be the difference between winning and losing a competition. So, again, it's highly context-specific. We try to make these general guidelines and apply to the population but everyone has their own, you know, goals their own lifestyle that they have to deal with and other factors, and that needs to be taken into account.

Dr. Patrick: If you are working out at home, let's say, and you can go and you're not a professional bodybuilder, you're a recreational...you know, I guess I wouldn't call it a gym goer if you're doing it at home but you're a recreational at-home gym goer and you can go and take your shake right after your workout because you're at home and it's not stressful and you don't have to think about packing it and all this, I mean, would that...

Dr. Schoenfeld: Not going to hurt. And, like, even if it helps a tiny bit, yeah, I would say that is the cost/benefit where there is really no cost and a potential very small benefit. Now, again, if you start going longer and longer, if you're taking 5, 6, 7, 8 hours and, again, if you're doing a, let's say, 10/14 and you train right after your last meal and then go 14 hours, then you can start compromising some gains. So, there's no hard rule to this, it's on a spectrum, but I would say the quicker you can get it in, conceivably, the better. There's just no downside.

Dr. Patrick: You mentioned the aging study where the fella from the Netherlands was looking at, I guess, on a, you know, per-meal effect with respect to protein intake and muscle protein synthesis...like, you know, like, most people aren't going to do 3 meals with 40 or 50 grams of protein without supplementing on top of that. You know, maybe there's, you know, some people that will do it but, like, not all the women and all the older folks, you know. For the majority, I think, those types of people, they might not be taking in that much protein per meal. Should they try to at least get 40 grams in at least one meal? Or is 30 enough? I mean, so, is 40 better than 30 for these older people, is it something they should even think about or is it, like, just the cherry on top but you don't stress yourself kind of thing, you know?

Dr. Schoenfeld: So, yeah, great question. So, one of the things I think that needs to be understood is that the studies are sterile. So, what I mean by that is that they're taking people, they're going to look at kind of proof of principle, so, they take them fasted, they're having nothing in their body, and they're giving them, let's say, a whey-protein shake. Whey is a very fast-acting protein that gets into your body very quickly, into your circulatory system, the body gets to use the amino acids quickly, when you're eating a whole meal, the amino acids are released in a much more time-released fashion. Because the body has to digest the food, break it down, there's fats that are going to delay absorption. So, again, you're eating, let's say, chicken with, you know, broccoli and rice, etc., you're eating a whole meal, there's time-delayed release of nutrients into your body. So, that's why I said the most important thing, 90% is targeting your...I hate to give exact percentage because I just want to emphasize the vast majority is worrying about getting your total daily protein intake. Stressing over this, you know, minutia of how much is in the meal...if an older individual is taking in 1.6 grams, they're going to be doing fine, they're not going to be meaningfully compromising their gains unless they're looking to body build to a master's level bodybuilding show.