Dr. Patrick: And it also goes back to some of the observational data we were talking about also a couple hours ago, whenever it was, when you're looking at protein intake, specifically animal protein versus plant protein. And animal protein as you pointed out is higher in essential amino acids, including leucine. So, you look at these all-cause mortalities and these cancer-related mortalities, and there is definitely conflicting data for sure. But there is an overall... Like, there's a lot of studies showing that there's a lower all-cause mortality and a lower cancer-related mortality in people that consume plant proteins. However, when you start to look at the largest observational studies that have been done, those studies that have looked for any like unhealthy lifestyle factors or confounding factors have found that, oh, actually, people that have no unhealthy lifestyle factors, so they're not obese, not sedentary, not smoking, not excessively drinking alcohol, they have a similar all-cause mortality as a plant-eating person. So, you know, again, it goes down to that, okay, well, maybe if someone is obese and smoking or sedentary, before you start eating a lot of protein and worrying about that, like let's get rid of those unhealthy lifestyle factors, right? Let's get physically active. Let's lose some weight, some fat. Then things can, kind of, fall into place.

Dr. Phillips: I couldn't agree more. I mean, I think, in, sort of, the broad checklist, and people say, you know, "So what are you doing to age well?" And I said, "Well, I'm trying to stay at a body weight that's, you know, not excessive." I weigh more now than I did when I was, you know, 13 14, no kidding. I'm more than I did when I was 23, 24, but not much more. I'm physically active. I pay attention to what I eat 80% of the time. And people say, "Well, what about the other 20%?" I said, "That's why I exercise. So, I can indulge myself 20% of the time." I don't need a vegan diet. I don't need a vegetarian diet. But I eat less meat, particularly red meat than I used to. I eat more fish. I don't need as many, you know, unrefined or excuse me, refined carbohydrates. I don't really have a sweet tooth, so I was kind of lucky in that way. So I don't feel compelled. I'm weak in the presence of chocolate. Maybe that's my one indulgence. But I don't smoke, never have. I don't drink as much as I used to, you know, all of those things when you're going check, check, check, check. And then people go, "Well, what about intermittent fasting?" And I'm like, "You know what..." And again, it's my...this is the analogy, I love this, is to, you dip the water or you dip the cloth in the water. And, you know, the first ring is, like, you get a lot of water out. I'm like, "That's maintaining your body weight." I'm like, the second one is physical activity. The third one is watch what you eat. The fourth one is, you know... And then you could add subtle nuanced things more on that. You know, it's only little drops that are coming out of the cloth. That's where, I think, a lot of the finer details, the vegan versus, you know, omnivorous diet, if you're judicious about how you plan your omnivorous diet, can make a difference. Yeah. if you're smoker, that's a great thing to give up because that's a bona fide, a shortened lifespan, poor quality of life, etc. But I understand the power of addiction and particularly if you started early, which is when most people take it up, man, is tough one to break.

Dr. Patrick: Yeah. Lose the weight, physically active. I think what you said is pretty fair. Like, the most important things.

Dr. Phillips: Yeah, some broad stuffs.

Dr. Patrick: And then the little drops that can come out.